chapter 211 discussions and chapt 212 theories

[kalla]

There is a discussion about the religious connections on another thread, but I do not think she is taking things directly from the bible. There are too many inconsistencies, and that is one of them. I think it is loosely based upon religious beliefs, but not strictly.

Regarding Nea, my take was that is his true form but would also be how he appeared previously since he only has incarnated if I remember correctly. Also, we don't see what went on in the other Noah's minds as they went through their transition and might be quite similar or quite different. Psychologically it would make sense for Allen to separate himself from Nea in his mind because he perceives he is fighting with Nea, thus they cannot be the same person or Allen has "lost."

[April]

Actually I thought we did get to see some other noah transform. We saw skinbolic (sorry if I misspelled that) transform into a noah. When they were in the ark when it was being downloaded into the new one. We saw those flashbacks. Or at least I saw that part in the Anime and not in the manga because I only picked up the manga from where the anime stopped. so if that was not in the manga sorry. I thought they stayed pretty true to the manga.
And wasn't Tiki (again sorry if I misspelled) holding on to his human life in his human form and switching between noah and human. Until Allen cut him with his leftarmsword. <- (I still think it's kinda creepy to pull out your own arm and have it turn into a sword and then go slashing about basically with your own arm)

[Mikki Walker]

Yeah, it's in the manga. Tyki was switching back and forth, but I think it was more for fun. He even said 'having a light side and dark side is what makes lif interesting.' I don't know if he REALLY cares for the other people he was traveling with on the train, but we haven't really seen them since.

I still think it's kinda creepy to pull out your own arm and have it turn into a sword and then go slashing about basically with your own arm

I think that'd be awesome!

[kalla]

Like I said, we don't see what they are going through in their own minds. We see Skin's physical transformation, but not a conversation between his human host and the Noah that takes over. It makes it difficult to compare how Allen see's Nea to how the other hosts saw the Noah inside of them.

There are always differences between manga and anime, but this was not one of them.

[Freakanzoy]

Hey guys, I've just been skimming through previous chapters lately to get my Tyki fix (:P) and I was wondering if you could help me figure something out.

In chapter 130, pages 7 and 8, Cross talks about the fourteenth to the Earl.

"This Ark no longer has the wings to leave Edo.... That power was stolen from it. The fourteenth... It's been like that ever since the day the man who betrayed the Noah placed a curse upon it."

....

"That man passed his role onto the fourteenth."

I'm probably overthinking it (English is not my first language), but to me that last bit reads as though the man who betrayed the Noah and the fourteenth are two seperate people.
Is this just a reference to Allen being the fourteenth, as in he's going to be Neah's reincarnation? Seeing as Cross already knew about Allen and Neah then...

I've also noticed that Road mentioned in chapter 93 that the Earl doesn't want her and the other Noah to be in danger, because they are his 'precious lambs' that he will offer to God.
I wonder if anything is meant by that, as it would be quite interesting to know why and what for the Earl could possibly sacrifice them...

[kalla]

Well, we know that Cross worked with Nea at some point so the way I read it is it was Cross who applied the curse. Because he appeared to be working with Nea, they probably saw it as a betrayal on both Cross and Nea's part. The only other thing I can think of is that Cross is referring to Nea and in the Japanese said "that person" rather than "Nea." It does make you wonder if it was Nea or Cross who passed on the role of the fourteenth to Allen.

Religiously, Road could be referring to sacrificial lambs...as in the Earl will sacrifice them before God to prove his faith as Abraham from the Old Testament. (he was told to sacrifice his son, but an angel stopped him at the last moment and a ram was sacrificed instead.) Also, Jesus is called the Lamb of God by St. John the Baptist and the belief is that God sacrificed his only son for the sins of the world. I'm not sure if any of that really helps though...as for what the Earl would do I think we need to know more about his true purpose and intentions before we can speculate with any accuracy.

[Skittlez]

Well, we know that Cross worked with Nea at some point so the way I read it is it was Cross who applied the curse.

However, Neah may have "placed a curse upon the ark" before he died, around when he took the first action that betrayed the Noah. Thinking strategically, if I was Neah, I would have cut off the Ark's abilities to others before I had attacked them, to gain the upper hand. If the other Noah couldn't travel with the Ark, it would have given them a huge disadvantage.

[kalla]

True, but we know Cross has dabbled in "darker arts" so to speak, and we have no reason to believe Nea did. Nea could also have asked Cross to place the curse prior to him openly turning on the other Noah...I have a feeling it wasn't a spur of the moment decision for Nea to turn on them.

[Freakanzoy]

Thanks for your views on that bit

They may have worked together to fight against the Noah.
After the Earl saved Tyki from Cross they talk and give you the impression it's certainly not the first time they've met.

I agree that Neah didn't just suddenly decide to turn against the rest of the family. I think that has to do with the other side of the war. It's implied a few times that what's written in the Bible isn't the accurate story.
We still don't know why the Noah family hates God and Innocence so much or why they really want to destroy the world as it is.
The Earl told Skin Bolic that now he awakened as a Noah he could finally see the world as it truly is. Is there something they can see that the Exorcists can't?

Other than that I wonder why there is a fourteenth to begin with. Wisely mentions that there were 13 Noahs who appeared.
What memory did Neah carry?

[kalla]

I thought the Earl just referred to God as "that hateful god" when he was coercing someone to call their soul back. I didn't take it as he meant he hated god. I had the impression they felt they were chosen by god as superior.

I have wondered what memory Nea carried as well...it's hard to tell because their names don't really line up with the memory. He is listed as the musician, and while I can speculate on what that could mean I really have no idea either. Hopefully we will find out soon, or at least in the next few chapters.