Letting Allen Do His Own Thing

[Noir XIV]

So, Allen has left the Organization or so, more like banished actually, but he still feels like it's his real home. What I'm confused about is why they aren't treating Allen with some plastic attitudes, despite the Noah in him (or being him)? Wouldn't actually "controlling" him or so make use well of his ark? It has proved a lot of use to the Black Order but I don't understand why they had to take his title as Exorcist. I mean, we don't even know that the Noah was actually in collaboration with Allen!

Yeah, what's your idea on this? I've been thinking about this a lot for the 2nd or 3rd time, and I'm still feeling the stupidity of the Black Order.

[kalla]

Actually Allen was more referring to the people, not the organization. It may just look a little weird the way he said it...unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean.

I'm not sure I understand your questions completely, so forgive me if I don't answer them quite right. They were punishing Allen to try to get him to tell them where he sent Kanda and Alma. I think their fear is not that Allen is collaborating with the Noah, but that Allen isn't or will soon not be in control and they may not be able to tell when that happens (especially the higher ups since they don't know Allen). It's kind of like trying to control something you don't understand...you really can't. You might be successful for a while but soon you will find something surprised you because you didn't have all the information.

Maybe think about it like this. You know there's a snake and you can see part of it. If you grab it you might be close enough to the head to prevent it from biting, but if it's the tail you are out of luck. So they are watching until the snake shows enough of itself to grab it by the head. (Sorry, I grew up with a snake so it's the first reference that came to mind, I'm not trying to draw a parallel between Noah and snakes.)

Also, the Order must maintain order or it will falter. That is why Komui, Bak, and others sometimes go along with things they don't really agree with. It is the best way to protect the exorcists or for them to maintain influence enough to protect them a little and they know that if they really did something drastic it would upset the ranks with unpredictable results. The Order, despite it being called a religious organization, is more like a military. In the military you typically do what your commanding officer tells you--especially in times of war--because dissent could mean life or death to you, other soldiers, or potentially risk losing the war/battle itself.

If you're asking what I personal feel about the Order's actions...I personally despise the situations they have created for the exorcists and those working with them. I don't trust them. However, I think there is more that we don't yet know about them that may be effecting things. I don't think it would have been wise to try to control Allen more than they did because it only would have given him more reason to leave. I think they are wise to be hesitant of the Noah inside him, but I don't really agree with how they handled it. However, my question is why did they handle it that way? (Putting Link with him all the time.) It's obvious there was a reason as Levellier said he needed Link to help Allen.

[Noir XIV]

Actually Allen was more referring to the people, not the organization. It may just look a little weird the way he said it...unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean.

I'm not sure I understand your questions completely, so forgive me if I don't answer them quite right. They were punishing Allen to try to get him to tell them where he sent Kanda and Alma. I think their fear is not that Allen is collaborating with the Noah, but that Allen isn't or will soon not be in control and they may not be able to tell when that happens (especially the higher ups since they don't know Allen). It's kind of like trying to control something you don't understand...you really can't. You might be successful for a while but soon you will find something surprised you because you didn't have all the information.

Maybe think about it like this. You know there's a snake and you can see part of it. If you grab it you might be close enough to the head to prevent it from biting, but if it's the tail you are out of luck. So they are watching until the snake shows enough of itself to grab it by the head. (Sorry, I grew up with a snake so it's the first reference that came to mind, I'm not trying to draw a parallel between Noah and snakes.)

Also, the Order must maintain order or it will falter. That is why Komui, Bak, and others sometimes go along with things they don't really agree with. It is the best way to protect the exorcists or for them to maintain influence enough to protect them a little and they know that if they really did something drastic it would upset the ranks with unpredictable results. The Order, despite it being called a religious organization, is more like a military. In the military you typically do what your commanding officer tells you--especially in times of war--because dissent could mean life or death to you, other soldiers, or potentially risk losing the war/battle itself.

If you're asking what I personal feel about the Order's actions...I personally despise the situations they have created for the exorcists and those working with them. I don't trust them. However, I think there is more that we don't yet know about them that may be effecting things. I don't think it would have been wise to try to control Allen more than they did because it only would have given him more reason to leave. I think they are wise to be hesitant of the Noah inside him, but I don't really agree with how they handled it. However, my question is why did they handle it that way? (Putting Link with him all the time.) It's obvious there was a reason as Levellier said he needed Link to help Allen.

Your thoughts are almost the same as mine (you got a few things off), but what I am wondering is the disadvantage they are in for losing Allen's ark. They used it well to transport the Exorcists with ease, but what now? Old fashion way? What a waste. I do understand what they were afraid of about Allen, but couldn't they confront it humanly? One on one talk? Heart to heart? In fact, they could "use" Link for it as he is one of the closest to Allen, but why not? Are they that afraid? The way the Organization is doing, it's too stupid. They should only take up those measures when the Noah in him really is burning hot. But I can't blame them. We all have the fear of the unknown. They don't know the power of the 14th and its limits, so it's no surprise they would take up something like that, but still...

Anyway, I didn't literally mean controlling Allen. That sounds stupid, seeing as he has the power equal to a General and a Noah in him. I was thinking of actually, like I previously said, using a one on one, heart to heart talk, and "control" him that way. Meaning, persuading him to do things. I know that Allen isn't that gullible (or at least seems so), but it can't hurt, right? It goes with something generic about the upper ups doing it, but I personally think that's the best way the higher ups would do.

And lol. I think Allen is referring his 'true home', the Black Order. The Black Order is his house, and the Black Order is also the place WITH PEOPLE IN IT, that he can turn to when in trouble.

[kalla]

Well, Allen left and I don't think they were thinking he would do that so soon and they'd not be able to use the Ark. The problem is there is no way to know when the Noah would gain influence or if he would just take over Allen in an instant. They don't have any way of knowing how it works, just that there is an opposing force inside of Allen. Having a talk is fine and good, but if the Noah is already influencing Allen it would probably guide him to give the impression everything was fine. Allen could even answer as himself completely unaware of the Noah's influence, so he would be answering honestly but the Noah would still be tricking them. They don't know Allen enough to know how he "normally" is even, much less to try to determine who is in control and when that will change. That's why they assigned Link to him and let him continue to be an exorcist.

They don't believe they can persuade Allen because of the Noah and they can't determine how much influence the Noah is maintaining or when that will change, so they are leaving it up to the other exorcists and Link to persuade him. So in that sense, they are/were trying to "control" him.

Um, "home" has two meanings. One, in the very literal sense, is a building. The other is the "place" you belong that is often described as the people around you, not the physical location. Many people have a home but no building they associate with home. People often refer to a house as the building and the home as the environment that gives a secure and accepting feeling to the speaker; it can include the building but usually it is associated with the people and if the people were not there the speaker would say house. Allen's statement is about the people at the Order, not the building or the entire organization. If he meant house or the organization, he would have said house or left it at organization and would not have specified Lenalee or any other people.

[Noir XIV]

Well, Allen left and I don't think they were thinking he would do that so soon and they'd not be able to use the Ark. The problem is there is no way to know when the Noah would gain influence or if he would just take over Allen in an instant. They don't have any way of knowing how it works, just that there is an opposing force inside of Allen. Having a talk is fine and good, but if the Noah is already influencing Allen it would probably guide him to give the impression everything was fine. Allen could even answer as himself completely unaware of the Noah's influence, so he would be answering honestly but the Noah would still be tricking them. They don't know Allen enough to know how he "normally" is even, much less to try to determine who is in control and when that will change. That's why they assigned Link to him and let him continue to be an exorcist.

They don't believe they can persuade Allen because of the Noah and they can't determine how much influence the Noah is maintaining or when that will change, so they are leaving it up to the other exorcists and Link to persuade him. So in that sense, they are/were trying to "control" him.

Um, "home" has two meanings. One, in the very literal sense, is a building. The other is the "place" you belong that is often described as the people around you, not the physical location. Many people have a home but no building they associate with home. People often refer to a house as the building and the home as the environment that gives a secure and accepting feeling to the speaker; it can include the building but usually it is associated with the people and if the people were not there the speaker would say house. Allen's statement is about the people at the Order, not the building or the entire organization. If he meant house or the organization, he would have said house or left it at organization and would not have specified Lenalee or any other people.

Herp derp, I know about home. -___- He said, "I love you and everybody else at the Order - my true home." Like I said, it meant the Black Order and (with?) the people in it. And besides, I didn't say that it was just the Black Order, I said, "...the Black Order is also the place WITH PEOPLE IN IT, that he can turn to when in trouble," meaning, both the Black Order and the people in it. >.> So yeah, in a sense, you are misunderstanding what I meant there. :P

Anyway, Link was trying to control him, I know that (because of some Leverrier mash up). The influence of Noah, too, I know that. You're misunderstanding my point. I am saying that they should "control" him once more with a one on one talk. 'Course, we don't know that it could be the Noah in him that's talking to them or not, but at least keep him some company to at least keep him sane for a while. Leaving him as a human who has a Noah in him is like sitting still waiting for a dangerous snake in front of you to attack you.

My point is that they should either talk to "control" him once more (which is proven wrong but still worth the try) or talk to keep him sane (which also falls under "controlling" his mind to a sane level). In the latter's case, keep him company like what Link is doing, but shouldn't have brought up those terrible memories (or so).

[kalla]

lol, you are misunderstanding what I'm saying about Allen's statement, but I think I give up.

And my point is talking to him won't do any good. They can't do anything to prevent what the Noah inside Allen does...only Allen can if he even can. If something doesn't work the first time you don't keep trying the same thing expecting different results...it doesn't work that way. Allen isn't losing his "sanity" (to the Noah's influence anyway) because no one is talking to him, it's because the Noah is waking up and no amount of talking is going to change that.