The 14th/Neah and Allen; Past, Present, and Future?

[Skittlez]

I'm curious... What does everyone think about the relationship between the 14th and Allen? Do you think that he likes Allen, or does he just view him as a vessel to be reincarnated in? Also, how quickly do you think Allen's transformation into the 14th will progress, and do you think that at one point in the story we'll lose moyashi to the 14th for a while?

I actually think that the 14th does like Allen... Most of the Noahs' transformations seemed like they occurred very quickly; one moment they were human and the next, not so much. But Allen turning into a Noah has been much slower than the other Noah's transformations, and to me, it almost seems like the 14th has been playing with him, or giving him more time to be himself, despite knowing that he's going to have to take over some time. Then again, Allen's slow transformation could be because he knows what is happening to him so he's able to fight it, unlike what any of the previous "vessels" had a chance to do. Or maybe it's just because the 14th is different from the other Noah, so he's taking longer to take control...?

Allen's transformation into the 14th is probably going to get faster as time goes on, considering that it's already progressed much faster since the first time we saw the 14th. I also think that at one point, the Allen's mind is going to be taken over for a while, and there will be several chapters following that event and who ever saw the transformation's reactions to it. Maybe that's how we will learn about the 14th's intentions, and slowly notice what exactly he's fighting for through the actions he makes as Allen. (Hehehe... and maybe by the time we've learned everything about the 14th, Lenalee can appear and there can be a cute moment that wakes Allen up...? obviously, I'm an AllenxLenalee fan.... )

Another thing... Does anyone have any theories on what happened when Neah turned into the 14th?

Was another Noah randomly developed, or was Neah the 14th himself? In Allen's head, the 14th shows Neah's form, not only the Noah aura/form (whatever it is- the portly man in the mirror). None of the other Noah, if they show their forms, show the first person they incarnated as. Only the Noah aura was ever shown. Does that bring the possibility that a normal human can be born a Noah and create the memory themselves, instead of the Noah Memory being created first, then taking over a human's mind?

Basically, I'm asking which came first, the human that created the Noah memory, or the Noah memory itself? I know that's like asking, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?", but it is an interesting thing to think about... I tend to love things that you can see no definite answer for, which is one reason as to why I like D.Gray-Man. Anyway, if the human created the Noah memory, it could almost explain why Neah had such different views from the Noah that had their original forms millions of years ago, when people lived in different times, and could have had different views than what Neah had in his time.

So, all in all, what does everyone think about Neah's past, what is happening with Allen and the 14th's current situation, and what do you think will happen in the future?

Sorry about how confusing that was! For some reason, my thoughts are really jumbled today... If you didn't understand and need clarification on something, please just ask for it ^-^ Can't wait to hear everyone's theories!

[kalla]

Hm. I think perhaps the answer to Allen's becoming the Fourteenth lies in Neah's true intentions. I don't know that they have anything to do with Allen, but perhaps he needs Allen to develop the innocence and become strong to fulfill his purpose.

My understanding, which could be incorrect, is that Neah was the first Fourteenth but that the Fourteenth had not existed prior to this new awakening; the other Noah weren't expecting or thinking there even was a Fourteenth and then Neah showed up. I am not sure that the other Noah aren't presenting their first human incarnation when in human form because we don't know all of their histories. (I hate to use the word incarnation, but I don't know what else to call it. Bodily take over?) I would think the Earl's human form was his first incarnation because my take on it was that they incarnated as the person they currently took over. Since I don't recall it being stated that the Earl has died or been defeated, I would guess he is in his original...skin. This would not be possible for Allen because he is aware of Neah but Neah hasn't taken over so to Allen's mind, Neah is still a different person. Once they have merged, there will theoretically cease to be an Allen and Neah will see himself as Neah--looking like Allen.

I also thought it said that we all of Noah "genes" but only when a Noah needs to be replaced does someone awaken. Maybe the Fourteenth awakened to replace the Earl? Except they all seem to have another name associated with them and Neah is the Musician. I also thought the Noah were the first humans so to speak. If we look in a biblical sense it would be the original humans who were chosen to survive the flood and start over. If that's the case or something similar, the answer to which came first would be yes.

I have sometimes wondered if the Noah are not a bit like the akuma. Perhaps they are feeding off the original soul inside the body they took over.

[Skittlez]

:O speaking of Allen becoming strong... Do you think that Crown Clown will evolve? And if so, into what? Creativity time!

I don't like using the word "incarnation" either... I think I spent 20 minutes trying to find a way around it... Also, I think your understanding of the Noah seems right... I thought my random theory didn't quite match what has happened so far. And I hope that we won't ever permanently lose moyashi.... x.x it might be a good chapter, and the 14th may be my third favorite character... but Allen's my first, and not having him around anymore would be sad Do you think that Hoshino would do that?

If Neah really was created to replace the Earl, then wouldn't that mean that there's something wrong with the current Earl? Could it be that he's too weak, and somehow, something recognizes this? Or maybe there just needs to be a change in a leader's view of the world, which would require a new leader all together. The first one would mean that the 14th is the strongest being currently, and not much else. The second would mean that Neah might want to save mankind(?). However, it could be a mix of both... But it's probably going to end up being something that no one ever has/would have guessed XD

Yeah, I've wondered how alike the Noah and Akuma really are... They both take over the bodies of a human and manipulate them, and Akuma do feed off of the original soul by evolving from the sadness and frustration that the soul has. Noah, we don't know for sure, but it seems like they do, since Allen has been in a weak state every time the 14th has taken over.

[kalla]

Well, Neah could take over when Allen's weakened simply to make sure Allen survives too.

I think if Neah truly appeared to replace the Earl, it would have been because of something wrong with the Noah gene or whatever. I don't really think that's the case. I suppose there could be a bigger plan behind it, but I haven't seen anything that pointed to that. In some ways I think the Earl wants to save mankind by making them stronger; it's just a very skewed and rather psychotic way to go about it.

There's a thread on the purpose of akumas and I think it is touched on in a few others. I can't really see Hoshino completely "killing" Allen off, but at this point I feel like we know so little of the true plot that I'm not sure what is really going on.

My guess is that all innocence will continue to evolve, but like the akuma the question is what are they evolving into.

[Skittlez]

In chapter 202 though, it didn't really seemed like Allen was weakened. All he was doing was talking about Neah's relationship with Mana. In fact, Neah taking over at that moment left Allen more vulnerable to the apocryphos than he would've been on his own. Disproving my own statement, that could have just been the Noah memory reacting to the Apocryphos' innocence. XD

Yeah, I don't think something being wrong with the Noah gene is very likely either. And I agree with your opinion of the Earl on how he may be trying to save mankind... But I think that it's more like a fresh start to see what the outcome will be the next time around than making them stronger. Unless you're talking about making them stronger Noah gene-wise?

I'm pretty sure that the innocence will evolve... I don't think that everyone's will just stop after Kanda's mugen. However, Allen has already gone far past the 100% mark as far as his synchronization with crown clown goes, and according to the apocrapper, "there is no being more unevenly and deeply connected to the innocence" as Allen. In the anime (I don't know about the manga), Cross said, "So you finally know how to use that thing (innocence/left arm) properly" (Might I add... How did Cross know?). It would be cool to see Crown Clown evolve... But it seems beyond advanced right now, and I personally would be sad to see it go.

[kalla]

I think Cross said something about developing a formidable weapon at some point but maybe my brain filled it in that way. I'm not sure how much more syncronized you can be beyond 100%, at least without losing yourself.

For the Earl it could be the Noah gene or it could just be he is creating the destruction so mankind will get stronger, rise up and stop him. I'm not sure what his true intent is, I just don't feel we have really been told what the intent is beyond the surface; we know what he is doing but not really why.

[Skittlez]

there's only so many theories/predictions we can make so far that would apply to the little that we know... Just a little more information would help x.x I really want new things to talk about than what has already been discussed...

Hmmmmm.... What do you (or anyone else that would care to answer) think about Neah? So far, do you like him, dislike him, or are you neutral? I like him, because he's so different from the other characters in D.Gray-Man; we know hardly anything about him which makes it fun to talk about and guess what he's thinking. He also seems so cool- not cool as in how he looks cool (which I think he does), but cool with his attitude. Like no matter what happens, nothing could freak him out. I also like how he appears every time. It's always in a different way. One time was to keep Allen from dying, he showed up in a few of Allen's reflections, took over Allen's mind after he'd impaled himself with his sword, in Allen's dream, and a few times during the Kanda/Alma Arc. Also, after Kanda had stabbed Allen, Neah seemed somewhat insane. For some reason, the little that we've found out about Neah/The 14th has made me like him.

[Slay CLay]

there's only so many theories/predictions we can make so far that would apply to the little that we know... Just a little more information would help x.x I really want new things to talk about than what has already been discussed...

Hmmmmm.... What do you (or anyone else that would care to answer) think about Neah? So far, do you like him, dislike him, or are you neutral? I like him, because he's so different from the other characters in D.Gray-Man; we know hardly anything about him which makes it fun to talk about and guess what he's thinking. He also seems so cool- not cool as in how he looks cool (which I think he does), but cool with his attitude. Like no matter what happens, nothing could freak him out. I also like how he appears every time. It's always in a different way. One time was to keep Allen from dying, he showed up in a few of Allen's reflections, took over Allen's mind after he'd impaled himself with his sword, in Allen's dream, and a few times during the Kanda/Alma Arc. Also, after Kanda had stabbed Allen, Neah seemed somewhat insane. For some reason, the little that we've found out about Neah/The 14th has made me like him.

I love him too. A lot.
I don't think that he wants to take over Allen, or he might be wanting to...this character is just way too laid back for me to analyze.
I only have a couple of reasons as to why the 14th wouldn't want to take over Allen, like he might be too human than the other Noah memories since he just popped out of nowhere as the 14th Noah in the family he is, I guess, different then the old Noah memories.

Mana was his older brother that could play as role, it might make Neah soften up to Allen and maybe even consider him as his `Nephew`.

But no, Neah might not take over him it could that he considers Allen as a family or the fact that maybe Crown Clown will hurt his body once his Master`s mind is wiped out.

But more about the relationships between those two, I been thinking more about their past. Since the Order and Cross think that Mana implanted the memories into Allen, could it be possible that Mana didn`t ?

[DeathHeiress88]

I've been thinking about the 14th's song...it was a lullaby wasn't it? I'm not sure but doesn't it sat something about silver eyes? Please correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Allen's eyes bluish silver/silvery blue? I can't help but feel a relation between these two but I don't know what it is exactly...

Hmm...then didn't Nea said something about "Allen" and "Timcanpy" being the keys for the 14th's revival?

At that time I thought he meant Allen himself but (spoiler alert) in D.Gray-Man reverse novel 3...it was said that 'Allen' was the name of Mana's dog and the "Allen" that we know didn't really had a name from the beginning

[kalla]

I've been thinking about the 14th's song...it was a lullaby wasn't it? I'm not sure but doesn't it sat something about silver eyes? Please correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Allen's eyes bluish silver/silvery blue? I can't help but feel a relation between these two but I don't know what it is exactly...Hmm...then didn't Nea said something about "Allen" and "Timcanpy" being the keys for the 14th's revival?At that time I thought he meant Allen himself but (spoiler alert) in D.Gray-Man reverse novel 3...it was said that 'Allen' was the name of Mana's dog and the "Allen" that we know didn't really had a name from the beginning

Perhaps a lullaby in the sense of being at peace and returning to the Earth. It's more like a prayer in my opinion. It does mention silver eyes, but with it being a song it could just as easily be significant as simply artistic. It's unclear who the owner of those eyes is if I recall.

They are definitely related as Nea is within Allen, but perhaps that is not what you meant? Nea did mention something about Tim being his in the Ark and it would stand to reason Tim would follow Allen if for no other reason than Nea resides within Allen. Without knowing what Tim truly is makes it difficult to guess the role it would play. I believe it was Cross that said Allen was necessary for the Fourteenth, among others but I could be wrong.

I'm unsure what you mean about how Allen's name would affect the revival of the Fourteenth.