Allen is the 14th, not his host

[Sinamon]

LOL!! This is fun! We;re too serious!

while you might count them in your categories, but I think that a weak exorcist vs a weak Noah... Noah wins... Strongest exorcist (not critical) vs Strongest Noah... Noah wins... expierienced General vs Noah... either might...
I'm comparing matched fights... General : Noah, either could win.
Exorcists : Akuma, either could win.
It doesn't make much sense to include the Weakest Exorcist with the Strongest General, against Noah would could easily wipe out all below General level.

And no, that makes no more sense than it did before. :P

to be honest, we've only seen Moa who had a strong will and not become an exorcist...

eeeh? and why'd you copy my last bit... XDD

i think you're missing the whole point of the argument lol. okee, let me make it crystal clear then...for the point of debate...i am not talking about the people who host the entities...i am ONLY talking about the dark matter and the innocence not being commanded by external factors. the people have a heirarchy but the dark matter (in the noah) and innocence (in exorcists) are ruled insofar as their relationship with their hosts.

the only reason i made that comparison was to differentiate the hosts and their powers. i am totally NOT talking about fighting styles, which is waaaaay off the original point. your previous posts implied that dark matter (in the noah, not akumas) is commanded by the earl and the innocence is commanded by the order/heart/apocrypha. so far, in the manga, no one commands the dark matter to do anything and no one commands the innocence to do anything. that is my point. it was to rebutt the idea that the heart or the apocrypha can make other innocence do as it wants. right now, the only relationship the heart has is that the other innocences' existence depends on it.

as for us only seeing moore/moa who's strong and not become an exorcist, you have to look at it this way:

EVERYONE else in the world who is not an exorcist at this moment was not chosen to be one. so out of the exorcists we do know, compared to the all the other strong-willed people in the world but are NOT exorcists, that makes the proportion pretty one-sided and the number of existing exorcists a rarity

[Rhode]

ok, I understand your point better now.
But it;s through the dark matter in the Akuma that the Earl controls them? And because of the Dark matter, that the Earl also controlled Alma? Not every action, but his overall actions were guided by the Earl through the Dark matter?
And to be honest... Other than Komui's little narrative regarding the innocence vs Darkmatter, and thus he ought to not fight a Noah... I havent seen much eveidence of the Dark matter... The Earl doesnt even intrude into their minds, like the Noah to the Akuma... hmmm...

Lol, what was our original point?

And my point was that we rarely see anyone, or get to learn about any one who isnt an exorcist. The entire DGM (Not complaining, just a comment!) is about exorcists, which just makes it look as though ordinary people arent as important enough to have a way of influencing what happens next...

:P

anyway, back to the 14th?