Characteristics of innocence types

[addenza]

Hmm, about the Kanda point that you made.. I thought that for Lenalee's case, the innocence became stronger because it feels the same way as Lenalee. To protect her family and friends. So if Kanda and his innocence can actually feel the same way about something, and something drastic happens, his innocence might evolve too.

I think for Allen's case, it's more like Mana's brother doing something to Allen and not Mana? Though actually, no one can really be sure that Allen was born with the innocence. I mean, he might have received it when he was too young to remember the incident or something. Being born with the innocence... Unless we can find a parasitic type who was also born with innocence and compare that innocence's ability with Allen's, that question will probably remain a mystery until Hoshino decides to reveal the answer.

[Trinyte]

Hmm, about the Kanda point that you made.. I thought that for Lenalee's case, the innocence became stronger because it feels the same way as Lenalee. To protect her family and friends. So if Kanda and his innocence can actually feel the same way about something, and something drastic happens, his innocence might evolve too.

Well we did see that sort of thing happen with Allen's innocence. Sure he may be a parasitic type, but if we remember back to when his innocence was almost destroyed, he was completely unable to activate it until his feelings resonated properly with his innocence, and until both he and the innocence desired the same thing.
So I'd certainly agree with the idea that for innocence to evolve, the exorcist and the innocence must attain a common goal.
However, as also pointed out in this thread, what must occur for the innocence to evolve further? If the converging of goals and the point that that evolution achieves is only capable of defeating a level 3 akuma, then what further lengths must be achieved to defeat a level 4???? Any ideas???

[addenza]

Well we did see that sort of thing happen with Allen's innocence. Sure he may be a parasitic type, but if we remember back to when his innocence was almost destroyed, he was completely unable to activate it until his feelings resonated properly with his innocence, and until both he and the innocence desired the same thing.
So I'd certainly agree with the idea that for innocence to evolve, the exorcist and the innocence must attain a common goal.
However, as also pointed out in this thread, what must occur for the innocence to evolve further? If the converging of goals and the point that that evolution achieves is only capable of defeating a level 3 akuma, then what further lengths must be achieved to defeat a level 4???? Any ideas???

*is pondering hard over the question*
Hmm.. To have a steel-like determination that the exorcist will do whatever it takes to reach his/her and the innocence's goal...? Okay, this is not making sense.
Erm.. After converging of goals... What comes next would be putting the goal into action? No idea how that is going to happen, but it's my guess (I'm not making sense again, right? >< )

[Mina]

so many quetsions... i think that lenalees innocence evolved because she asked the innocnce to help her protect her friends, i know its silly but i really think so
and allen... hmm he realized that he loves akuma and human so maybe the innocence waited for allen to realize it so hge can save his freinds in asia branch, i mean he also needed the innocence to protect something,
and kanda, i dont know what he wants to protect but i think he also has something, at the beginning of dgm he and allen got into a fight when allen wanted to sacrifice himself for lala, so i', sure he will also evolve when the time comes,

i especially think that you can only become a user if you have something to protect

[addenza]

Hmm, is it time for me to add on something about Timothy's innocence? Though I don't really know what his innocence type is.. It seems like a sort of a crystal type? Since he activates it and he doesn't have a weapon other than his soul... It can't be a parasitic, cause part of his body structure would change more obviously...
Ideas, anyone?

[Kisali Niaoko]

I've taken interest in this thread to find out more about the Innocence types, though I'm certainly confused about one thing.

I'm not sure if this'll be a spoiler or not; it seems nobody has gotten farther than the Timothy arc. I've read D.Gray man and I'm much farther than that. I just want to make sure that I'm not going to ruin it for anyone. But for those who have read it thus far, then I'm concerned about where a certain General's innocence would lie. And no, this General isn't Cross. But before I say any more, I do wish to make sure that someone would at least know what I'm talking about.

[Manda]

I think I know what General you are reffering to, and I have generally assumed that its a parasite type innocent that resides within him. I believe it was insinuated early on in the series that synco rate with a parasite type is generally higher because it resides within the person instead of outside. It lives, breaths, and exists within the person. Therefore there is, sometimes, no outside manifestation of the innocence. I would assume this has something to do with the person themselves, and how they tell the innocence to act and react.

As for evolving, I believe that yes, you must have your feelings completely in tune with the innocence. The more in tune you are, the further it evolves. I believe tho, that its the subconcious mind that controls the innocent, and heart's true desires, not the concious mind. Therefore its not what you ask of the innocence, its what you feel. If you feel the same way, then it evolves. The stronger you feel ont he same wavelength, the more evolves. Because in each instance in which an innocence has evolved where we could see, it has been fueled by emotion, and heart's desires. It works along the same principle as alchemy in real life. The universe ties directly to your soul (Your heart), and it can only hear you through that unspoken language. Therefore the only way you can communicate with your innocence is through your true feelings. Kind of like how god knows what you're really thinking when you apologise for something you're not sorry for.

I also believe that an innocence evolves according to the desires and needs of the user. For instance, how Rinali's innocence evolved in such a way that she could still control it in a very unique and personal way. Each innocence does this, if you notice. Each exorcist's innocence corresponds to the way they live, what they feel, they're passions etc. Its like an extension of themselves, the weapon is a metaphor for who they really are. Like Miranda's abilities... She was always depressed about something bad that had happened to her, and she wished she could have done it over, and got it right. What's her innocence capable of? Cross lives a dangerous life of gambling, whatshis innocence? A gun. LOL Now I hope I'm not the only one who sees the connection there. Finally, look at Allen. He lived as a street performer, and what did his innocence evolve into? The Crown Clown.

Allen's curse has nothing to do with his innocence, btw. What happened, was that when he brought Mana back as an akuma, Mana cursed him. Like one of those movies where the old gypsy women places a curse on someone. Mana wanted Allen to see the truth, and live with what he had done. To never EVER do it again! And yes, his soul was set to rest when Allen destroyed the akuma shell. A curse has little to do with the person being at rest, and more to do with the universe carrying out the instructions that had been left with it. It just gives Allen an advantage over the other exocists when it comes to spotting akuma. However, the curse serves its purpose by haunting Allen with images of the tortured, mournful souls.

[NoahOfWitches]

I think I know what General you are reffering to, and I have generally assumed that its a parasite type innocent that resides within him. I believe it was insinuated early on in the series that synco rate with a parasite type is generally higher because it resides within the person instead of outside. It lives, breaths, and exists within the person. Therefore there is, sometimes, no outside manifestation of the innocence. I would assume this has something to do with the person themselves, and how they tell the innocence to act and react.

As for evolving, I believe that yes, you must have your feelings completely in tune with the innocence. The more in tune you are, the further it evolves. I believe tho, that its the subconcious mind that controls the innocent, and heart's true desires, not the concious mind. Therefore its not what you ask of the innocence, its what you feel. If you feel the same way, then it evolves. The stronger you feel ont he same wavelength, the more evolves. Because in each instance in which an innocence has evolved where we could see, it has been fueled by emotion, and heart's desires. It works along the same principle as alchemy in real life. The universe ties directly to your soul (Your heart), and it can only hear you through that unspoken language. Therefore the only way you can communicate with your innocence is through your true feelings. Kind of like how god knows what you're really thinking when you apologise for something you're not sorry for.

I also believe that an innocence evolves according to the desires and needs of the user. For instance, how Rinali's innocence evolved in such a way that she could still control it in a very unique and personal way. Each innocence does this, if you notice. Each exorcist's innocence corresponds to the way they live, what they feel, they're passions etc. Its like an extension of themselves, the weapon is a metaphor for who they really are. Like Miranda's abilities... She was always depressed about something bad that had happened to her, and she wished she could have done it over, and got it right. What's her innocence capable of? Cross lives a dangerous life of gambling, whatshis innocence? A gun. LOL Now I hope I'm not the only one who sees the connection there. Finally, look at Allen. He lived as a street performer, and what did his innocence evolve into? The Crown Clown.

Allen's curse has nothing to do with his innocence, btw. What happened, was that when he brought Mana back as an akuma, Mana cursed him. Like one of those movies where the old gypsy women places a curse on someone. Mana wanted Allen to see the truth, and live with what he had done. To never EVER do it again! And yes, his soul was set to rest when Allen destroyed the akuma shell. A curse has little to do with the person being at rest, and more to do with the universe carrying out the instructions that had been left with it. It just gives Allen an advantage over the other exocists when it comes to spotting akuma. However, the curse serves its purpose by haunting Allen with images of the tortured, mournful souls.

How more I hear about this how more it seems that the Innocence is like a part of it's user, it's like the Innocence has more personal favors when choosing a user, than to look if (s)he's capable of being a user or not.

I doubt that Allen is born with Innocence, not only because of what you mentioned, but also because that would mean that his mother had the Innocence inside her, I wonder how that could happen

Besides I think there are more then 109 Innocence, and I think that the Heart Innocence is not just 1 Innoncence, but an Innocence who is on exactly the same line as the Innocence and not like 100% combined but much much more. I think that 100% isn't the top....

[Manda]

How more I hear about this how more it seems that the Innocence is like a part of it's user, it's like the Innocence has more personal favors when choosing a user, than to look if (s)he's capable of being a user or not.

I doubt that Allen is born with Innocence, not only because of what you mentioned, but also because that would mean that his mother had the Innocence inside her, I wonder how that could happen

Besides I think there are more then 109 Innocence, and I think that the Heart Innocence is not just 1 Innoncence, but an Innocence who is on exactly the same line as the Innocence and not like 100% combined but much much more. I think that 100% isn't the top....

I absolutely agree with the assumption that the innocence senses ones capabilities instead of picking someone who favors its style! Hence why I can only conclude that the innocence evolves and takes form in accordance with its user. Remember that most innocence can be formed, and shaped into a weapon, or even placed within an existing piece. In which case the innocence must coincide with whatever it was added to. Like Mugen. Its the only answer I can logically piece together from the way I've seen innocence act.

Unfortunately I do believe that Allen was born with the innocence because it was mentioned that he was abandoned because he was born with a deformed hand. Thats how he ended up on the street. How it got into him is beyond me, but according to the bible, God creates life, not people. And who gifted people with the innocence other then God. So playing by God's rules, anything is possible. I hope this will be revealed later on in the series because it rather intrigues me.

I agree that 100% is probably not the limit, but an event horizon towards an entire new level of invocation. I mean, hardly EVER is there a 100% limit on power of any kind. 100% represents a whole, therefore there must be two wholes, and thus for. Mathmatics says so, so its impossible to cap the sync rates at 100%. Maybe thats just the max sync that the BRO has witnessed. I believe that Allen will surpass this very soon. After all, this is an interesting and very dramatic arc and something amazing is bound to happen to save our brilliant characters. If not, then I can imagine that Allen will either die and take everyone out with him, or cross over finally. But we'll see.

As for the heart, I am still undecided. I've found myself wondering in the heart is not one innocence, but all innocence combined into one fluid creation. On the other hand, the heart could be just that, the heart of a child. Remember, that innocence can be construed in many ways, and when reading a story such as D.Gray man, you can never assume too much. Everything is a metaphor, and what represents innocence more then any other object or emotion then a child. Pure, and clean.

You could be onto something tho, but I have one small doubt. The way innocence, and the search for the heart has been spoken about by the characters. Especially the Earl. They are searching for an object, and since the Earl seems to be WAY more knowledgable on the subject of Innocence then anyone on the side of the Pope, I tend to pay more heed to his words on the subject. If you are right, however, then I can imagine that Allen's innocence will be the heart, or in someway deeply connected to it because of its purifying abilities.

[addenza]

I agree that 100% is probably not the limit, but an event horizon towards an entire new level of invocation. I mean, hardly EVER is there a 100% limit on power of any kind. 100% represents a whole, therefore there must be two wholes, and thus for. Mathmatics says so, so its impossible to cap the sync rates at 100%. Maybe thats just the max sync that the BRO has witnessed. I believe that Allen will surpass this very soon. After all, this is an interesting and very dramatic arc and something amazing is bound to happen to save our brilliant characters. If not, then I can imagine that Allen will either die and take everyone out with him, or cross over finally. But we'll see.

Hmm, it was only said that Allen was a "Critical Point Breaker", right? I assumed that it meant that his compatiblity with Crown Clown was already beyond 100%. On this note, I wonder just what the limit for the synchronisation rate is. That is, if a limit actually exists.

Talking about the current arc (I'll call it the North Amercian branch attack arc - oops, the name is too long, but you get what I mean), I'm hoping that Allen will come up with a new function for his sword. At one point, I was fantasising that his sword would change shape, but that's probably impossible... The whole point of Allen's sword being polar opposite to the Earl's is most likely to show how the two of them will always be on opposing sides.

As for the heart, I am still undecided. I've found myself wondering in the heart is not one innocence, but all innocence combined into one fluid creation. On the other hand, the heart could be just that, the heart of a child. Remember, that innocence can be construed in many ways, and when reading a story such as D.Gray man, you can never assume too much. Everything is a metaphor, and what represents innocence more then any other object or emotion then a child. Pure, and clean.

That's interesting, but if you say that, then Allen would be the best candidate (though he isn't really a child), since he has part of his innocence embedded in his heart. ><

Your theory about the heart being a combination of all the innocence fragments is quite intriguing. And it makes sense too. In that case, it would ensure that the Heart is never destroyed and innocence will always be present to combat the Earl and his minions.

You could be onto something tho, but I have one small doubt. The way innocence, and the search for the heart has been spoken about by the characters. Especially the Earl. They are searching for an object, and since the Earl seems to be WAY more knowledgable on the subject of Innocence then anyone on the side of the Pope, I tend to pay more heed to his words on the subject. If you are right, however, then I can imagine that Allen's innocence will be the heart, or in someway deeply connected to it because of its purifying abilities.

Yes, I agree with you! The Earl's information is most probably more reliable than the Order's. After all, the Earl had faced the innocence once before, while all the information the Order had was derived from the script that was on the innocence cube.

From the words of the Earl about the Heart hiding itself, it seems as though the innocence is just as crafty (or even more crafty) than the Earl. I'm guessing that's probably how the innocence defeated the Earl 7000 years ago - by a battle of wits. The Earl probably had no idea who was fighting against him until the final battle, and he was probably surprised by the identity of his enemy. However, currently the Earl has information on his main enemy - the Order. That means that he can find ways to counterattack their strategies and get spies to infiltrate into the Order to see if they have more information on the innocence and his own side. Hence, the Earl will have a higher chance of winning the war against the Black Order this time. But he doesn't know who exactly is on the third side of the war, so he can't do anything about them and can only wait for the other party to take action.

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Urghh. I'm going off-topic. Back to the point. I don't think there has currently been more information about new characteristics of innocence but I'll add in (known and unconfirmed) information about the Heart since this thread is about innocence. ^^ Once again, feel free to continue discussing the characteristics of innocence and your theories!