Massive opinions about Aphocrypos.

[Kaori]

Hi! I'm new here but I won't go first to the Introduction Forum 'cause I'm too lazy to make one more thread.

btw, pleased to meet you all. :3


hmm..what are your opinions about "why Aphocrypos wants to unite with Allen"?

Well, for me its because Allen's Crown Clown is the innocence that will evolve to being the "Heart". Aphocrypos said that Allen is the accomodator who bonds deepest to their innocence, his innocence was broke into particles once but not disappeared so that's a plus to a very very high posibility that Crown Clown would be the Heart. Aphocrypos as the guardian of the Heart wants to unite with Allen 'cause he want to save him (that's what Aphocrypos' said few times) at any costs (i said "at any costs" because he doesn't care for anybody)..he only wants to give Allen the power/strength that can suppress the 14th, so the sinner vessel will be capable to wield the true power of the Heart and the 14th wouldn't use the Heart at any chance.

[kalla]

Welcome!

Yeah, with Apocryphos I just don't see anything positive about it. I don't know if it was something that was created by the Order at some point, some rogue innocence, or something else--and I honestly don't care. Whatever its intent, I agree with Tykki's sentiments that it's not working for God. For one, it had no problem killing indiscriminately. Second, it seems to be acting on its own rather than on orders from someone else. And three, it's just plain creepy in a angels-can-be-evil kind of way. I don't think any good would come of it uniting with Allen (ugh, nasty) and in fact I would be more inclined to say something bad would come of it.

I don't think Apocryphos is an entity from God because the manga seems to be loosely based upon Christian Ideals, if not Catholic specifically. Scriptures and Church Doctrine clearly state that actions like those Apocryphos has already taken are not acceptable and are not acts of God, but rather selfish non-pious acts that should be avoided at all costs. I doubt the Order authorized its actions, or at least was unaware of the scope of actions it would take, simply because it was so eager to kill everyone including people that were obviously important for some reason--Link.

I wonder if it is some failed experiment that was designed to protect the heart or any potential for the heart and it has gone off the deep end. Perhaps this is part of what the Earl is fighting against. Maybe the Noah are trying to prevent this because the innocence, or at least that innocence, has become corrupt not realizing that they have become corrupt themselves. I don't really know, but I don't think there is anything pure about Apocryphos other than achieving its goal at all costs.

[Kaori]

It's not very big deal if DGM was being far little by little in the Christianity 'cause from the start it's not really based on the Christian Religion..Hoshino had borrowed only the facts that she can use for her story to be written.

I'm agree with you that Aphocrypos is not an entity from God 'cause he only do things that will lead his way to his goal no matter what happens to the persons around him, but if he can hide his identity as possible he can he didn't do such drastic actions (i'm sure about that 'cause he don't want to be interfered by the other innocence accomodator or the other higher ups of the Order while he observing the innocences and their accomodators but i don't have an idea why he killed Kurosu Marian).

Aphocrypos is not made by the Order's failed creepy experiments. He is an independent innocence that only existed just to became the guardian of the Heart. The Earl is searching for him in this whole 7000 years just to find a clue of Heart's whereabouts (Tyki said that).

---------- Post added at 11:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 PM ----------

This is suddenly pop-up in my mind in "why Aphocrypos killed General Cross?".

In my own opinion its because Aphocrypos known that Marian had know something about the hidden side of the war and Aphocrypos also known that hidden side and he don't want to reveal that for now. And my other opinion is its because General Cross revealed what he knows about the fourteenth and because of these revelations it may cause problems to Aphocrypos' plans.

[kalla]

Just because the Noah are aware of it doesn't mean its current state is not the result of a failed experiment. Are you saying that Apocryphos didn't kill the people--that someone else did? If that thing was really the guardian of the heart and had no other influence from the Order or anything, why would it just NOW be getting around to meeting up with Allen if he's the heart? Even if his innocence didn't become the heart until later, this thing arriving now when it can sense innocence doesn't add up. And a lot of this storyline has been based on Catholic ideas, so while yes it has been borrowed it isn't an unreasonable idea that she wouldn't just throw that all out the window at this point.

[Kaori]

I think Aphocrypos only kills the unimportant persons but can interrupt with his business like the guards on Allen's cell and actually he didn't kill Link, he only try to erase Link's memories from the moment were Aphocrypos appeared.

Aphocrypos was very far to be a failed experiment from the Order nor be known from the Order. for 7000 years there's a very high chance that the Earl and Aphocrypos were met before 'cause the Earl, the Heart, and the other innocences together with Aphocrypos were existed before the Order were founded. The Earl is the one who called the Grim Reaper as Aphocrypos or Aphocrapper. The Order doesn't know anything about Aphocrypos, they only know about the Heart is it is the source of power of all innocence, they don't know about its guardian..if they know something surely they will make a preparation to catch that independent innocence.

Maybe Aphoc was hiding until the right time is arrive. When one accomodator that have a right to achieve the heart but if

---------- Post added at 09:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 PM ----------

Crown Clown is not the Heart there's a high chance that Aphoc will not appear to Allen just to unite with him and save him in the creepy way. And maybe Aphoc disguised as one from the Order so he can go inside and outside without revealing his real identity and avoiding to get the attention of the members of the Order while observing.

[kalla]

Look, you are entitled to your opinion, but so am I. It's a bit rude to dismiss someone's opinion because it isn't the same as yours. I have not dismissed your ideas of what Apocryphos is; I'm trying to offer a different perspective and have a discussion because until Hoshino spells everything out the fact is we don't know all the history behind everything. That's what a forum is for, to discuss and offer different viewpoints; not to tell people they are wrong or dismiss their ideas.

I'm not stating what Apocryphos is or isn't--I'm giving different possibilities. An opinion is not a fact, nor should it be stated as one. Until Hoshino specifically states it in the manga, there is not proof of what it is or is not.

We haven't seen enough of the aftermath at the Order to know what they know or don't know, but there is a history of finding out that the Order is not being up front with everything they know. Just because Apocryphos doesn't want Revellier to know about it doesn't mean the higher ups are unaware. They keep a lot of secrets, even from other members. And Apocryphos may not have killed Link, but he definitely injured him enough for Revellier to beg Zhu to save him. I also think the Order, who was keeping Allen under such heavy guard, would not allow someone they did not know anywhere close to him. Even if Apocryphos was in disguise, they would let hardly anyone down there to see him, so I doubt they would let just some random Order member in to see him.

[Kaien]

Don't be so rude. Forums is a discussion of public interests, its very common and not surprising if opinion or idea exchanging will suddenly turn out to debate.

[LiMugetsu]

Hell yeah!

That damn old fart feels like he's a superior here..

Bakalla. . .

[Sinamon]

uh, what just happened here? did i miss a post or did a post get deleted in between these? i don't know how in one minute it was a lively debate about the apocryphos, and the next it turned into name-calling. rhode and i never got to that point even though our debates were very heated LOL. everyone has their opinions and are entitled to have them and post about them. others can state their counter and even show proof and maybe even change others' minds here. it's not about posting something you pull out of your butt..it's about sharing ideas, perspective, knowledge, and maybe learning new things that we may not have thought of before on our own.

things are bound to get a little tense but that is the nature of these forums. but i don't think we should resort to name-calling since we are all one community and share the same passion for this series. let's all relax.

[kalla]

Excuse me? I'm not the one dismissing others' ideas and I'm certainly not resorting to name calling. The point of a discussion is to look at other perspectives, not insult people or tell them their ideas are invalid. You can disagree without doing either of those things.

My comment was not meant to offend but to let Kaori know that the way s/he is wording things could be interpreted differently than perhaps it was intended.